Whānau Interview

The following information was created by Cherryl for a Māori community research workshop in Wanganui.

How to do whānau Interviews

Interviews or oral histories are one way of us gathering kōrero for ourselves to learn how in the last few generations, we lived. What kai was eaten, where people went fishing, schooling, te reo Māori, the types of rongoa, the places that were important on the land, histories of the marae, maara kai, whakapapa, many of the things that are important for us to know. All of us want to know more about our own histories and many of us are doing part time whakapapa research for our own whānau.

Ngāti Apa/Ngā Wairiki has a very rich history. We have every right to be proud about our history. Alongside of our whanau and hapu histories, Ngāti Apa has produced great Maori leaders such as Mere Rikiriki and of course T.W Ratana. Those kōrero are intertwined with our own. Many of our whānau witnessed events and have kōrero on both Mere Rikiriki and Ratana which is great and important for us to know. Numerous Pākehā writers have written on Mere Rikiriki and TW Ratana and in those books you would think they had no iwi or whānau.

The gathering of whānau kōrero is especially important for Ngāti Apa/Ngā Wairiki now as we are focusing on reviving the strength of our whanau, revitalising kōrero, tracking down lost whānau etc. It is also important for keeping track of where unmarked urupā are or where battles were, where pā were located, the former names of places etc. The social and economic changes of our whānau and hapu also come out clearly in whānau kōrero.

There have been a lot of changes even in the last twenty years, so oral interviews are important with not just kaumatua but also with those who lived around the pā and those who grew up away from the rohe. They all have whānau kōrero but a range of experiences.

There are two key issues to think about when gathering whanau korero:

We want to ensure that our knowledge is passed from one generation to the next.
During interviews, the person being interviewed has to be clear that other whānau will see it. So its important to double check after doing each interview that, the person is happy with what is going forth. Its important to protect the person being interviewed e.g if there is a kōrero about a relationship outside the marriage, what will be the implications of that on the descendants?

Past Collections

We are really lucky that people in earlier years gathered interviews with our kaumatua, including Raimapaha Rei, Bill Maremare, Chris Shenton, Grant Huwyler. Some whānau also have kōrero from kuia and kaumatua that they recorded and these are all valuable for recording and passing on our knowledge.

We are also lucky within Ngāti Apa that at least 10 years research has already been undertaken to lay out mana whenua kōrero of hapu/whānau. The mana whenua report which is the result of many years work by Grant Huywler and gathering of whakapapa which he has made freely available to all our descendants is an invaluable resource for our whanau who are researching their own whakapapa.

Passing on the Kōrero

It's important to pass on korero to other whanau. Sometimes individuals are collecting information but it does not go beyond their own collections. When interviewing it is worth spending time talking to people about ways they can share their kōrero with whānau. It can be possible for them to:

write up a small account of what they have found to pass on to family -to pass on key papers that relate to their families
to let family members know who the parents, grandparents and great grandparents, many people don't know this much information
pass photos on or talk about who is in the photos and tell younger generations what you know about the people in the photos

Digitising Information

With new technology it is now possible to copy photos, maps and other material on to computers and CD's. Digitising enables access in ways that we have not had before. Photos for exa Knowledge exchange mple were very few in the past but are now able to be copied and sent to other families cheaply and without moving the photo from your own home. It's important to collect and digitise old VHS footage especially.

Storing Information

Whanau korero is extremely precious. A number of people lost photos, whakapapa, taonga and family records in fires, floods and through loaning things and never getting them back. Where possible its important to back up material. The value and importance of the information collected in whanau interviews cannot be underestimated. In this day and age with digital storage available it is possible to store material on to computer. Equipment needed: computer, CD and DVD burner, scanner. CD and DVD storage allows the material to be stored off site. Fire wire cable allows for much speedier transfer of data such as film and photos so check that you have the inputs for fire wire. The cable is cheap to purchase from Dick Smith or anywhere.

Storage to CD's

Advantages: The majority of computers burn CD's. You can store material on to the CD's such as interviews, maps, photos etc. This is a low cost option. CD's are also easy and able to be stored.

Disadvantages: There is not enough storage to store film clips. Storage to DVD's Advantages: DVD's store a lot of information 4.7 GB, so photos, films, files can be copied. They are easy to store elsewhere.

Storage to hard drives

Advantages: You can purchase a hard drive and store all the material on to one hard drive. If you do purchase a hard drive get one with two fire wire ports. Transferring data at lower speed (400 rather than 800) is better for quality.

Where to store: The main thing with storage is having somewhere dry and off site from your home. Options are places like someone else's house. If in someone else's house, be careful, my kids once taped over important material because they needed some discs for some music. Also the information needs to remain confidential unless the person gave permission for usage. Some banks have free vaults and it is not a bad idea to keep a complete copy in a vault.

Who Owns Korero That We Collect?

Its important to understand that the korero of our maunga, our whenua our whakapapa rightfully belongs to the collective descendants of our rohe. WE do not own anything, we can be kaitiaki of that korero for others but it is not ours to own. We have a collective responsibility to pass it on to others of our whanau. We are all kaitiaki of that korero as we all hold some korero however small. If a history is to be written, then permission would need to be gained from the people so the people can decide if they have faith in that person to reproduce that history.

There are many reasons that people may want to access the interviews that you hold, and really hapu need to develop their own guidelines but to start with:

Whanau who supplied information should be given a copy of their interview automatically.

If you are holding copies of a whanau's tupuna, then ensure that the whanau gets a copy and knows that you have it, these are taonga.

Our own people are researching their whanau histories and this is important mahi that should be assisted and encouraged. If you have materials or references that will assist those whanau, give them. Many of our people have zero knowledge of their own whakapapa, but you may have come across information so ensure that you can give copies of these to whanau who may be connected. If its going to be too expensive for you let them know you have the info.

Our tamariki, our students, our whanau are wanting to be able to do research and again if they whakapapa to us and are seen and heard among us then they should have access.

If they fall outside our whakapapa or if they are not seen and heard by our whanau then they will need to ask the people at hui for permission to access our korero or to use it in any way.

In special circumstances where there is national interest in figures such as Mere Rikiriki and TW Ratana, and an approach was being made to write or make a film about them, that would need to go to a hui with the descendants and there are quite a few of them.

Consent

Consent has to be gained at many stages of the process and in different ways. There is the consent to do an interview. There is consent that the material gathered is what they are happy to say There is the consent for other whanau members to have access. There is consent if compiling a history. In order to get an output for the whanau concerned a book was produced – it consisted of quotes from the interviews on different subjects. Because it was mainly quotes it was easy to compile in a short time. It was a conscious decision not to analyse the interviews but to let them speak for themselves. Potentially controversial or sensitive matters were not included in the book. Issues such as who used to beat up which kids were not included but a few paragraphs were written saying that there were accounts of violence and commenting on the harshness of discipline etc. The reason for non inclusion was because it was felt that matters such as that needed to be talked at hui where they could be discussed widely. But a number of the over 30s had brutal discipline by todays standards.

The writing up part is the most difficult part.

Whanau Interviews: Trouble Shooting for Tricky Situations

This list explains some of the problems that arise and some possible solutions:

Problem: A person who has important knowledge doesn't want to be interviewed
Solution: Respect their right to privacy and don't pursue it. A number of our old people will not go on tape, don't push it. Wananga may be more appropriate for korero.

Problem: Someone lets slip a whole lot of korero about an abusive relationship, a grandfather used to beat up the grandmother. You are friends with the mokos and know that they don't know that the grandfather was abusive, they have always talked lovingly about him.

Solution: This type of issue arises a lot in whanau interviews. Stuff comes out of the closet and the big issue is how do you handle this info which could hurt people. Its important to have two or three older people who you can trust and talk to within the whanau who act as advisors in this type of korero. I have three, one kuia and two older cousins who keep things to themselves, are wise and can assess all the hurts and impacts on the whanau. I run tricky issues past them to get counsel. Most important is that my advisors dont talk about it outside the conversation. You have choices, you can either go back to the person and request to take out the korero or you can let it go forward and warn the people who would be affected – as I say it needs a case by case korero with your wise advisors. Many people want to eliminate all negative korero from our histories, but that is dishonest, we did have some terrible incidents and they are part of who we are. For example, drinking was a way of life at one time we don’t need to deny it, just note it and move on, it explains a lot of things today.

Problem: In an interview you get one person telling one story and then another one tells you a whole other conflicting story.
Solution: Cross checking is important, if there is written material and other accounts, read it. Talk to others who may have been there. At the end of the day, there is no truth to any situation. Whanau interviews are not about collecting truth, they are about collecting peoples memories. The thing to note is that there are different accounts and respect the differences.